Aloha Owners Association
Alohaowners Forum Boards => Aloha Discussion => Topic started by: jjokee on December 11, 2014, 09:35:53 PM
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All,
I am the new owner of a 1982 Panacea Aloha A32 Sailboat. She will need some work, mostly electrical, plumbing, bright work and bottom paint.
I've read some of the posts regarding the keel bolts and took a look at mine. What I found was interesting. Two of the nuts were not there. Completely missing. The bolts look good. The area around the aft keel bolt is solid, however the nut is corroded.
Does anyone know the size of the nuts and where I can purchase them? Also, I assume they should be stainless steel? However I am wondering why the aft one is corroded...
Thanks for any help provided.
Sincerely John "O"
S/V Panacea
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If you have corroded nuts, they are likely NOT stainless. I have a smaller Aloha and have replaced corroded nuts in areas where the bolt is stainless and the nut is steel. Dissimilar metals are not an ideal situation especially in a marine environment - it can corrode out in no time at all. I suggest that you replace all of the nuts with stainless and check all threads. Take an old one to get the size from a fastener supplier.
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Is that the A32 that was for sale in the Boston area? We almost went for a drive when it was listed at its initial price.
Chris
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I want to add a bit more info to my previous post now that I'm on a computer with a keyboard.
When Panacea (the one near Boston) first came on the market (at around $1000), I called and spoke to someone (don't remember the name) and was told it was a "donation" boat, hence the price. I was also told it had been "out in the weather" for a number of years, had water infiltration in the cabin and a seized engine.
Someone was taking a look at the engine to see if it could be salvaged via oil down the injector holes and tapping with a dowel (and to see if it really was seized - he didn't think it was). But the other interesting thing I was told was that "someone" (he wouldn't say if it was previous owner or him) planned to drop the keel and sell the lead as scrap. So maybe that's why some nuts are missing - someone started the process and changed their mind?
I was planning to see the boat (two day drive for me) but before I could do that it appears someone bought it and re-listed it for 7 times the original price.
If it is indeed the same boat it will be interesting to follow your restoration. It appeared to need a lot of work but much of that work is what I just finished doing to the A32 we purchased this spring. I have done complete plumbing, sanitation, propane, fuel, fresh water tankage and galley replacement (and more) - be more than glad to pass on any info that might help.
Chris
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Wow, I didn't realize that there were so many new owners of A32's on this forum. Over the next few months, this is going to be a great place to be to discuss A32 and how best to maintain them. I am very lucky in that I know the previous two owners Andiamo and I know what was done to her to keep her in the top shape that she is in. (She is along side my other boat). I will also be checking the aft keel bolt after Christmas. I will let you all know the results in the new year.
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All,
Thanks for the feedback! Yes this is Panacea from Boston. I bought her at auction through the Mass Maritime. By some research before I purchased her I had seen a listing on Yachtworld and a few other brokers listed her for over 17K. I was informed by the Maritime that they in fact had the engine running for a potential buyer the prior year, It had been at the maritime for at least a year because I had seen her in Nov of 2013. I have some documentation that she was in the water in 2012 and in fact has a new mainsail from 2012. Looks like it has never been used.
Obviously the corroded keel nut was not stainless. I did find the size 3/4-10 and have purchased Stainless replacements.
Interesting theory about removing the keel for scrap? I guess anything is possible, if so I guess she was spared that fate.
I hope to get her back to sailing conditions in about a years time. I'll be looking to the other A32 owners for advice.
Thanks in advance!
John
S/V Panacea
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I'm curious who I spoke to when it was originally available for $1000 as a donation boat. I remember it was someone connected with the donation company/charity. He was the one telling me to see it quickly as they were planning to sell the keel (and part out the rest).
Glad that didn't happen - good to know she will be sailing again.
It was right after I spoke to this guy that it changed hands and was listed for the price you saw.
Guess someone realized the true value.
Glad to hear the engine is running and about the sails.
Chris
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We looked at that boat online when we were shopping. Glad you bought it. Now we can go back to proper average price estimates. It was a bit of an anomaly even at 17K. Great price for these boats. Way too low if you already own one if you know what I mean. They should be more like 50K but with the depressed prices lately most are going in the high thirties. Once you have her fixed up and sailing you will see that these boats are head and shoulders over most of the 32 footers on the market today. Really well mannered, very comfortable and well laid out and they are the best looking boat on the water (always important). You have a great platform for a project boat. Hopefully she repays you with years of good service for your efforts.
Chris (the other Chris)
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Chris, and Chris,
Thanks for the feedback! I know what you mean about the price. After I originally saw Panacea, I started looking for Aloha 32's of the same year and the least expensive I saw was 29,500 and another for 34,000. I've already started the overhaul diving in with both feet. I've taken everything off the boat and stored it in my cellar, which is dry, good for the cushions and sails. I have the main salon table in my cellar and started to sand it down. I will need to replace the companionway boards.
I'll change all the fluids in the engine, replace oil and fuel filters and try to get her re-started. I did hook up a battery just to see if it would turn over and it does, that was a relief. Now the next thing will be to get her running.
I plan on trying to brighten up the interior with lighter colors. Not sure if the deck can be salvaged or if I'll need to replace it.
Does anyone know where I can find marine grade decking material for the sole? I've thought I might just purchase marine grade plywood and put that in its place and put varnish down.
Thanks again!
John
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John: Where are you located? We use a store in Toronto called Noah's that sells the teak and holly sole (as the interior floor is called). It comes in 4x8' sheets. The sole in your boat has 3/4" marine plywood under it as the teak and holly is only about 3/8" thick (not very stiff). You can probably take the teak and holly ply off of the 3/4 and reuse the heavy underlay. If not you will have to buy 3/4" marine ply for under the sole. The teak and holly was about $400 a sheet last I looked. Maybe cheaper in the States. You do mention replacing the deck. I hope you are referring to the interior floor as replacing a deck is a HUGE undertaking and very expensive. On a boat that size you would spend more than the price of the boat to do it and many, many months with dust in your nose. The interior floors, if you do them yourself and reuse the 3/4 ply underlay can be done for around $1000. I see you are planning a multi year renovation on this boat. We brought Windover home in the same condition and did as much as we could (or had to) under cover, on the hard and splashed her the next spring. We did a few bigger projects in the water through the summer. By doing this we had the benefit and pleasure of sailing all summer while work continued. It was very pleasant working on the boat in the water. I actually looked forward to it. I find boats age very quickly on the hard too so by putting it into service immediately I was able to keep her better maintained. Good luck with her. You can check out our project boat at http://aloha32rebuild.weebly.com/. We have a blog page on that site for any questions you might have.
Good Luck ..... and fair seas.
Chris (the other Chris)
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Chris,
Thanks for the info. I am in Plymouth, Massachusetts. USA obviously. I like your website, great info. I did find some maple and teak decking for around 30 dollars a linear foot, I'm guessing I'd need roughly 15 feet. I'll try cleaning the current deck and maybe some light sanding to see what I'm up against before I start replacing anything just yet, still trying to asses the entire project and figure out what's what.
Another question for you, on the port side about 6-8 feet from the bow, there is a metal device on the exterior of the hull. I'm thinking it is some sort of anode, inside it has two electrical connection points, I haven't chased down the wiring yet, but thought you might know. Also the reefer has a separate thru hull, which is currently capped. I'm thinking I'll remove the thru hull, patch the hole and let the reefer drain to the bilge. What do you think?
Thanks again!
John
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Hi John!
It sounds very much to me like you have a dynaplate installed on your hull, used for electrical grounding and bonding.
http://www.marinco.com/en/4006
I'd be hesitant on allowing your refrigerator to drain into the bilge. One leaking milk container will reveal why.
Aloha!
Steve, Patti and Grace (Ship's Cat)
sv "Ever After"
A27 #39
Tatamagouche NS
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John: We have some terminology issues here I think. I am assuming that by "deck" or "decking" you mean sole and by "reefer" you mean ice box. From this perspective I have some things to discuss. First off, if you do decide to strip the teak and holly sole before replacing it entirely, you must take great care. If it has de-laminated due to moisture, you are done. It cannot be brought back from this. If it is simply stained, you should be aware that the teak and holly is only a veneer and is very thin. I have had good success with a very sharp scraper or draw knife as some call it. I would carefully scrape the stained areas with the grain of the vener till I had removed only the polyurethane finish. A little trick with the scraper is to take a grinder and round the corners on either side of the blade. These rounded corners minimize the notching caused by holding the scraper off level when in use. Then bleach or clean the stained area using any of the available teak cleaning products, allow it to dry once the color matches the unstained portions of the floor and then re-coat using a polyurethane or varnish to match the original. DO NOT USE A MECHANICAL SANDER ON THIS TYPE OF FLOOR!!!! I hope I stressed that sufficiently. One wrong move and you can blow a hole through the veneer that you cannot hide. If you must sand do so with a block and some elbow grease, still proceeding slowly and carefully and always with the grain.
Sailors are a traditional bunch so if you ever wish to re-sell the boat be careful of straying from the original design or materials. I would never buy a boat that had evidence of extensive modification. I would try to match the original sole as best as you can, right down to measuring the width of the teak and holly strips and duplicating it exactly. This site has a lot of info about original materials and suppliers for this purpose. It only takes a little more effort to duplicate the builders or designers work and they spent many thousands of hours to get it right. Why mess with that?
Regarding the ice box, routing the drain to the bilge is an option and many builders used this method. That said, what you drain from the bottom of an icebox at the end of a voyage is generally not very pleasant. This smelly concoction will leave a residue in your bilges that you will smell forever. Your time may be better spent examining the through hull fittings and replacing them. Make sure there is a functioning ball valve on the drain and you can shut it off if there is ever an issue. Again, stock is best in my opinion.
The first boat we bought was in similar condition to Panacea. it was neglected but had really good bones and a great heritage. When we went to work on it we were a little overzealous and threw out a lot of junk that seemed to have no purpose only later to discover that some of these items were very important...and original to the boat. Take your time sorting through the junk and save everything for at least the first year. You will be amazed how many bits find a home at the end of the process. We wet sanded the gelcoat and waxed it and it came up like new...again this is on our site under "boats we have owned".
The most important and most satisfying thing we have done on very new boat we have bought was clean it. I would spend hours wet sanding or compounding the exterior and my wife cleans the interior with a toothbrush in the corners and vinegar and water or stronger cleansers for the really tough stains. Murphy's wood oil soap is great for cleaning woodwork. One really good cleaning takes years off of the age of a boat and helps familiarize you with your new vessel. You will be amazed how resilient the materials used to build your boat are. Don't be quick to remove or paint them. Once the interior woodwork has been cleaned and has had time to dry we would oil it with a bit of teak oil on a rag and go over the oiled areas with another dry rag. Once this has been done you will find that the remainder of the projects are not that intimidating. Avoid painting the hull or interior. One good cleaning often brings the boat back to a factory fresh look and smell.
The boat you bought can be restored to near new condition if you move through it carefully and systematically and do a bit of research along the way. Don't be too quick to make changes. So many new sailors take their boat and make it an RV on the water by adding microwaves, electrical doo-dads, lighting, tv's etc. Be careful of doing this. For resale, stock is best. Take her back to basics and then build on the clean pallet the builder and designer created.....in my opinion.
Hope this helps you.
Chris (the other Chris)
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A suggestion I can make is to buy "Brightwork: the art of finishing wood" by Rebecca J Wittman. She also has a second book "The brightwork companion". Both are available from Amazon and cover off just about every method of finishing and refinnishing wood on a boat. I like these books because they talk about current tools, techniques and products (pros and cons of each).
The other Chris is absolutely correct about restoring gel coat vs painting. Our previous boats came to us looking like salvage - but they came back to a factory shine with a little effort.
Chipped and scratched gel coat can also be repaired. A friend of ours who runs a mobile marine business out of Peterborough can make just about any damage virtually disappear - no paint involved. Actually, (for the other Chris) he is teaching a half day course on gel coat repair and restoration at the Rigging Shoppe in Toronto (Scarborough) near the end of February.
Either way, I bet you end up with a magnificent boat for your efforts.
Chris
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All,
Thanks for the great info.
1. Steve, Patti and Grace (Ship's Cat) , Sounds like you nailed it, I don't think it is the same manufacturer but it is wired as they describe from the web site. Also, did't consider the milk scenario. Makes sense I'll re-plumb to the original design.
2, Chris, my intent is to keep her in an "as-built condition". The "sole" does have an area that is de-laminated in front of the stove. and there is a small (1" x 1") section broken from one of the boards which cover the bilge. Depending on how big the overall project turns into, I may initially try to clean it up as much as possible without doing any more harm, but eventually It will need to be replaced.
Regarding the Reefer, what I termed short for refrigerator. It is not just an ice box. I believe the previous owner put in a refrigeration unit in the ice box, I don't know if this was part of the original design, however the compressor unit and plumbing are definitely new. I will definitely re-plumb the drain to its original thru hull and replace the ball valve.
For this weekend I plan on getting her motor running. This would be a big step forward!
Thanks again!
John
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One thing regarding the engine; The starting sequence is turn the key to on, alarm should sound, press the glow plugs for 10-15 seconds and then, while continuing to hold the glow plug button down, press and hold the start button till it starts. It took us a while to figure this out and for the first few months we thought we had an engine problem....go figure.
Re: the sole repair, we opted to simply clean our badly damaged sole. It sounds like yours is in similar condition. We have plans and materials to do a complete replacement this winter or early next season. There will be a lot of traffic on that floor during the renovations so it is probably prudent to hold off till all else is done.
Good luck with the engine.
Keep us informed.
Chris (the other Chris)
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This has been one of the longest threads in recent memory. It shows what an interest there is in maintaining these wonderful boats. I would like to add one other area to examine. What is the lightening protection system installed (or not)? My boat had factory installed ground wires from all shrouds to keel bolts but since the mast does not sit on the keel, it was not grounded! The mast sits on a stringer over the bilge, and I attached a battery cable from the bottom of the mast to a keel bolt, being careful not to bend the wire more than a gentle curve (no right angles). The engine was grounded only by the prop shaft, so I attached a wire directly to a grounding plate. In lightening storms, I drop the rear swim ladder into the water, as this will effectively ground all lifelines up to and including the pulpit and for added protection, I attach jumper cables from the shroud turnbuckles into the water. I also installed a lightening " deflector" rod on the mast tip, although I am not sure it really would work. I have seen lighten strike nearby, while on anchor, but I have never been hit, thankfully. Bruce
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Bruce, where do the ground wires attach to the shrouds? I assume the chain plates but there appears to be no grounding of any kind on our boat.
It does have one of those "dynaplate's" but nothing is wired to it. Guess I have another task this spring (task 495 and counting).
John, some advice regarding the cabin sole - add or enlarge the drain from around the mast foot. A lot of water comes down the mast when it rains (normal - no way to stop it). If the drain is plugged or gets "overwhelmed", all that water overflows into the sole and rots it.
On our A32, someone had caulked the space around the mast plate!!! That guaranteed that all water ended up rotting out the floor (which it did quite nicely).
Chris
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We managed to stop the water coming down the mast by installing a new neoprene mast boot and then caulking (with 4200) in all the grooves around our new mast boot. There are three or four grooves in the mast extrusion that we filled. No water down below.....until we pulled the mast to install a new furler and did not take the same care putting it back in....but that is another story. I should also mention that we removed the mast collar on the deck and had it powder coated. We then bedded it down very well to the deck, perhaps stopping up another potential area for leakage.
Chris (the other Chris)
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That's interesting - do you get any water down the mast when it rains?
I had installed a new boot and caulked up the sail track (just above the boot top). When it rains, water comes down the inside of the mast and flows into the bilge. A good rain storm and I get about half a liter or more in the bilge. I was told by someone that water comes in from the mast head and halyard openings. I never gave it any more thought but now I'm thinking there may be other "grooves" to caulk - like the one on the front of the mast that is capped.
I don't see any water coming down the outside of the mast or collar - although I plan to remove the collar and rebed with butyl. Our boat appears to have been caulked with silicone right from the factory. Fortunately a proper butyl seal (like explained on Main Sail's site) is a permanent solution.
Man, I wish it was spring so I could work on some of this stuff!
Chris
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I should clarify. We never stopped the water coming through the mast....there is water entering the bilge through there. but we did stop the water running on the outside of the mast using the caulking. This water is what caused the sole damage described above.
Chris (the other Chris)
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Ah - that makes sense. The water coming down the inside of our mast did rot the floor but only because the PO filled the drain channel around the mast plate with caulking. Once I removed the caulk and enlarged the drain hole, everything drains into the bilge.
I removed the sole in front of the mast - which has the worst rot. The actual vaneer is intact but the ply its bonded to is rotted. Another owner said he carefully removed the rotted ply from the vaneer and glued new ply to it. He then scraped and refinished the floor and it looked great. I may try this.
Chris
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The ground wires for the shrouds run from the bolts at the chainplates down the side of the hull and onto a keel bolt, similarly from the headstay chainplate. I too have had mast water damage to to the floor, rotting out a small area of ply under the veneer at the aft of the mast. I was able to remove the underply and carefully insert a shaped piece of wood and clue it to the veneer. My mast step dish had no drain channel so I cut one across the aft side of the dish, epoxied it, and now carefully clean out debris each spring so water will drain. A small amount of water seemed to come from inside the mast, from the top, There was a cut slot in the plastic insert in the front of the mast, 2' above deck, and I fitted a plug to seal it. If there is any water lying in the mast setep dish, it seems to soak up into the floor underply like a sponge. Bruce
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Bruce: how does the water soak up into the floor. My mast step is a foot below the floor. Any water collecting there has no way of going into the floor ply. I am not sure what you are describing perhaps.
Chris (the other Chris)
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Actually...now that I think of it the dish portion is raised above the bilges isn't it? I think I just answered my own question. So the water fills the dish as you call it and overflows into the bilges but also absorbing into the plywood.....I will have to look at this.
Chris (the other Chris)
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Here is a pic of our mast base. you can see the "dish" the plate sits in is about 1/2 inches below the top of the stringer (and the plywood sole).
On ours, the space beside the plate was filled flush with caulk- so ALL water overflowed into the ply.
I also added a second drain hole as well as the U shaped overflow. The stringer is cored (yes, the mast sits on a balsa cored stringer - ug) so you need to dig out some balsa, epoxy fill and re-drill.
Since I did this, the ply has completely dried out and all water drains to the bilge.
Only wish this had been done about 10 years ago...
Chris
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Someone said it earlier, this is one lengthy blog, so why not keep it going.
Today was a great day for Panacea. Today the engine fired up and ran like a champ!
I changed the fuel filter, put the sea water intake into a bucket of water with a hose running and after a few attempts had her purring like a kitten! Took me a few times to find where neutral was so I wasn't turning it over with the prop engaged but once I got past that she was off to the races!
This is a big day when you purchase a boat at auction and like Forrest Gump said "you never know what you're gonna get". Well now I know! She lives and breathes!
John
S/Y Panacea
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Congratulations - nothing sweeter than the sound of a running engine.
One less thing to worry about.
Speaking of worry, be sure to check the thru-hulls for the cockpit drains. They are plastic and end up cracking. Checked ours when the boat was hauled and two of the four were cracked all the way around.
If they break completely off on the inside, water will come in if it's rough or if you have a lot of weight in the cockpit.
Chris
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I remember the day our engine started....lots of celebration in the cockpit. The owner said it ran but we had no luck starting it until we rewired the charging system. Fired right up....what a relief. I had visions of hauling that lump out of the boat. Congratulations on Panacea's engine. Your restoration should be a breeze knowing that this hurtle has been crossed.
Chris (the other Chris)
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Hi John,
I came across your post quite accidentally and couldn't believe my eyes. The Panacea is my old boat! I bought her in 1986 and for 6 years, lived aboard and sailed her up and down the New England coastline from Block Island to Bar Harbor. Finally had to sell her (gave her away just about) around 1992 I think. What a coincidence finding you! I'd love to hear about her condition, and to see if you're enjoying this wonderful sloop. What memories!
-Stevo
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Steve,
Like I said in my e-mail, Panacea is sitting on the hard undergoing some restoration work. I've replaced all the hatches, removed allot of unused wiring and cleaned up the battery compartment and wiring. When I got her, there were no batteries, no electronics except for a disconnected VHF radio. The water system was in disrepair, hot water tank gone, electrical pump broken so I've removed all the plumbing except the 2 tanks and I'll refit with PEX tubing. This summer I'm focusing on getting the deck watertight, fittings, hatches, propane locker rebuild, etc. This fall I'll focus on the engine, replace all the hoses, belt's, impeller, fluids, etc. In the spring I plan on stripping the bottom and repainting and in between that Ill refinish the bright work and eventually refit with new electronics... That's the plan and hopefully I have both enough time and funds to make it all happen by next spring...
John
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There is rarely any water draining from our icebox (have refrigeration).
I don't have the drain hose connected to anything (it's thru hull is now for the washdown pump.
But I do have a plug (snap over lever type) in the drain in the icebox - for the "milk spill" scenario.
If I have water or am washing the icebox then I remove the plug (and catch the water in a bucket if its gross).
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Holdech,
I think in your last post you meant to reply to Andiamo's Forum titled A32 icebox...
John
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Oops...
Chris
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No problem, your post just help add to an already record breaking forum!
John