Author Topic: Boat insurance advice  (Read 260 times)

marika

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Boat insurance advice
« on: July 10, 2020, 06:18:08 PM »
Hi, I'm new to this site and Alohas. 

I am hoping for some advice on boat Insurance in Ontario.  There are so many companies and my home/auto insurance does not do boats over 26 feet.  And advice would be great! 

BTW, we have an aloha32. 

Thanks in advance!

Sawlty Dawg

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2020, 01:02:11 AM »
I used these guys for a while when I was in Ontario

Skippers’ Plan Insurance
The CG&B Group, part of Arthur J. Gallagher Canada Limited
80 Richmond Street West Suite 700, Toronto, ON M5H 2A4
 www.skippersplan.com

Jackrabbit

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2020, 12:14:50 PM »
I also use Skipper's Plan  - they are excellent and premiums are reasonable.

Holdech

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 07:26:50 PM »
Check out the NautiMax package from mdmarine.com (they are in Orillia). I found their towing coverage better plus dinghy and outboard were less expensive. They also seem to have the most reasonable navigation extension if we ever head south again. I’ve never had a claim though. That’s the real test.

Chris
Chris, Teliki, A32

Jeff.

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2020, 12:11:53 PM »
We use skippers plan. We didint really shop around we just went with then right away. We pick our boat value and pay premiums based on that. They are obviously real sailors who cruise as well. When we went south they knew more about the route then we did. Easy to deal with for that coverage extension
Aloha 32 Elixir V

marika

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2020, 07:20:54 AM »
Thank you so much for the advice!  We have gone with Skipper's.  Coverage looks good, and they are quick to respond.  Thanks again!

Bill Hutton

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2020, 11:28:08 PM »
I'm trying to get a sense from those who responded whether you have "replacement" or "agreed value".
I have just renewed with agreed value. My detectable has gone from $500 to $1000 and my yearly cost is $600 including HST. This is for a boat value of 48k.
My company is UFANS (snafu spelled backwards) but I assume in the end we are all really only insured through a couple of companies like Lloyd's of London.


I wonder if "replacement" would be better.
Bill Hutton

jesse

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2020, 12:35:16 AM »
We ended up insuring through our home owner insurance with the co-coperators (in Canada) last year. I'm not actually too sure about the particulars of the coverage but it's a $500 deductible, with $25k coverage which is priced at $450/year. I presume that would be "agreed value". I didn't shop that around, it was just easy to do with our existing broker and so we went with that at the time.


Julie M

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2020, 11:30:31 AM »
There was a pretty interesting article in Practical Sailor about BoatUS insurance through GEICO.  I posted this on Sailing Anarchy.  If anyone wants to read the thread, here's the link: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/215592-insurance-for-old-boats/&tab=comments#comment-7061263

 Posted May 25

Practical Sailor has had some articles recently that cover insurance obtained through Boat US.  For those of us with older boats, it looks like we don't have much in the way of coverage.  And it's getting worse.

    For "hard goods" - things such as fiberglass repairs (including hull damage) as well as damage to things including wood, masts, spars, paint, rails, stainless frames, aluminum T-tops - the maximum the policy would pay for any damage was reduced by 10 percent for every year past 20 years of age.

One reader asked, “If I lose the mast, or get T-boned by another boat while my 47 year old boat is sitting peacefully at anchor, the policy pays only 20 percent of the actual cost of repairs, less deductible?”

The Boat US rep answered answered in the affirmative,  "As in the fictional T-bone scenario, fiberglass repairs would be depreciated under the existing policy."

    For "soft goods" starting in mid-March 2020 under the updated GEICO Marine Insurance agreed hull value policy, sails, canvas, carpeting, cushions and fabrics will factor in depreciation beginning with the sixth year from the year of manufacture. "We will no longer offer a depreciation waiver for boats beyond 20 years of manufacture."

    Also starting at the same time, “machinery,” such as engines, gensets and other onboard machinery will see depreciation applied starting with the eleventh year (instead of the formerly 20th year) of manufacture (with depreciation not greater than 80 percent).

When it comes to salvage - "understand that half of all sinkings occur at the dock when some small part below the waterline fails. However, these parts – an outdrive bellows, for example – most often fail due to “wear, tear, and corrosion” or a lack of maintenance, so the policy won’t pay for a new outdrive bellows. But here’s the rub: As a consequence of the failed bellows, your boat has sunk and is likely a total loss. Who pays for that? That’s why you need “consequential damage” coverage that pays for losses that often start with a failed part that may be excluded under the policy. The small, inexpensive part that failed may not be covered, but the rest of the repairs or total loss will be.

 One caveat: This consequential damage coverage often applies only to specific types of losses, for example, the immediate consequential damage resulting from any fire, explosion, sinking, dismasting, collision or stranding. These are the types of losses that typically cause a constructive total loss scenario."

If you subscribe to PS, you can find that article here: https://www.practical-sailor.com/safety-seamanship/insuring-old-boats
Julie
A32-67 - KIALOHA

Aldebaran

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2020, 09:21:16 PM »
I work in the insurance world but my area of expertise is in life and health insurance not property insurance.

So with that caveat, here is how I understand the variations. At least in Canada.

There are two main ways to calculate an insurance loss:
cash value
replacement value.

Under the cash value approach, the claim payment is based on the depreciated value of your car or boat. If you buy a car for $30,000 and total it four years later, you might get $15,000.

Under the replacement value approach, you would get the cost of a new car, which might be a little more or less than $30,000.

Obviously, replacement value will cost more in most cases.

In both cases, the process works best when there are thousands of identical cars or boats being produced and there is a ready market for used vehicles.

A third approach is "agreed value" which is when the boat owner and the insurance company agree up front what the boat is worth. If the boat is lost, no one needs to argue about what the market value or replacement value is. This is a good approach when we are talking about 40 year old boats with limited production runs and extensive modifications by successive owners. Or antique cars.

Of course, a recent survey is helpful to support a claim under a replacement cost or market value policy.


Jesse, I suspect that the $25,000 is a policy maximum, not the "agreed value", otherwise you would have had some input into the number.  You might want to confirm with the broker.

Ken Fraser

Bill Hutton

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2020, 10:46:20 AM »
Interesting information everyone, thanks. (More is welcome)


I will check with The Co-operators again,,, but I think when tried last time their car and house coverage costs were a lot more than I'm currently paying.


For our 1976 boat in Florida we opted to only buy liability insurance with Geico. This is what the previous owners had done.  I'm not entirely comfortable with this of course!, but the other options (as Julie mentions) are not great. And if the boat gets wiped out by a named storm then the deductible increase would probably be higher than the boat's value.
Bill H
Bill Hutton

Aldebaran

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2020, 12:55:36 PM »
Just to add to the conversation.

People should be aware that, in law, insurance policies are considered contracts of "the utmost good faith". This imposes a higher than usual standard on both insurer and insured applicant to be honest and forthright.

By contrast, the usual standard is "buyer beware" (caveat emptor) meaning the buyer needs to do his own due diligence.  The seller is not obligated to disclose issues unless directly asked.

Under the doctrine of "utmost good faith", an insurance buyer needs to volunteer information that might be material to the insurance company deciding to insure.

Of course, the law does not expect you to read the insurance company's mind. They also have a duty to ask for all the information they might need.

It really comes into play after the policy is issued. If something changes in your risk profile, like you move the boat to a different body of water, you have a duty to advise the insurance company. Worst case, they might be entitled to void the policy when you present a claim.
Ken Fraser

jesse

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2020, 02:25:09 AM »
Interesting, thanks for the input Aldebaran. In my case the 25k was the value I gave them (purchase price of the boat). I guess I should contact them and find out the details of the policy so I understand what and how I'm covered. At the time I was more interested in making sure I was insured as opposed to how I was insured...

Aldebaran

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2020, 12:06:57 PM »
I had this interesting insurance dilemma when I was buying my boat. The boat had been on the hard for several years and the previous owner had let the insurance lapse. I agreed to buy the boat conditional on testing the engine in the water. However, the marina would not launch the boat without proof of insurance. The seller however did not want to pay $450 to insure the boat for 30 minutes.

But I owned a motor boat and I found a clause in my insurance policy that provided immediate coverage for 30 days on any new boat I bought.

So we convinced the marina that should be sufficient to cover their liability.

They put the boat in, the engine ran and the boat was mine.

-----------------
Of course, a week later the engine stalled while I was docking with 15 knots of wind on my tail and I wound up aground on a lee shore. Eventually, I wound up replacing the entire fuel system and all the engine electrics. Good now.
Ken Fraser

Julie M

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Re: Boat insurance advice
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2020, 02:18:30 PM »
I had this interesting insurance dilemma when I was buying my boat. The boat had been on the hard for several years and the previous owner had let the insurance lapse. I agreed to buy the boat conditional on testing the engine in the water. However, the marina would not launch the boat without proof of insurance. The seller however did not want to pay $450 to insure the boat for 30 minutes.

But I owned a motor boat and I found a clause in my insurance policy that provided immediate coverage for 30 days on any new boat I bought.

So we convinced the marina that should be sufficient to cover their liability.

They put the boat in, the engine ran and the boat was mine.

Ken, we were looking at another boat and had a similar experience with the boat yard, except we wanted the boat pulled for a proper marine survey.  Nobody would do that without insurance and the owner refused to get insurance.  We didn't own another boat at the time.

But the fact the owner didn't have insurance added to the growing list to walk away, which we did.
Julie
A32-67 - KIALOHA